I do agree that the sports writers you mention in the US laid the groundwork for hardboiled by giving life and also recording the patter of working people.
Yes, ‘recording the patter of working people’ which, as is so often the case, brings up what it's all about in the UK: class. There simply isn’t the US use of slang, back to Helen Green and 'Hugh McHugh' among others, in a non-judgmental, non-condescending way in Brit stories of late 19/early, even mid-20C. There were exceptions, see W. Pett Ridge ‘Mord Emly’ (1898) and other 'Cockney novels' but they were a definite (short-lived) genre. Wodehouse, too but he was half American by 1910s.
I think the States only seems to be less about class in comparison to the Kingdom, for obvious reasons; our robber barons have lusted after your class hierarchy ever since we decided to go to war over paying taxes.
Of course, but as you know, I view everything through the monocular, if gloriously rewarding, lens of slang. The UK just isn’t producing that kind of author/text at that time. Brit-slang's walk-ons are still too self-conscious. (Let alone the occasional appearance of US imports). So many come with figurative or even literal quote-marks.
Mocking Hemingway is a sport in itself, and maybe it gets points somewhere, because people sure act like it does. I don't know if your countryman Gerald Kersh ever wrote sports columns, but he wrote Night and the City, among many other great tales. Fowler's End is excellent, but his short stories really shine. If he wrote about sports, it would be great work.
Mags such as Bell's Life in London (mid-19C) and The Sporting Times (late 19C) are hugely slangy. And while I'm no rooter, I know there have always been good sports writers in UK, e.g. Neville Cardus (cricket), Brian Glanville (football), Hugh McIlvanny (boxing; and his brother William - acknowledged as ‘father’ of contemporary Scots crime fiction - and nephew Liam are worth checking for Scots police/noir) and doubtless many more (and more recent), but none have evolved that noir-ish style that Heinz etc managed. But nor did UK crime fiction either, just copied/adapted. AFAIK Kersh, whose works, esp. Fowler, Night and They Die with Their Boots Clean have offered near 600-citations, never touched sport (other than pro wrestling in Night...).
I do agree that the sports writers you mention in the US laid the groundwork for hardboiled by giving life and also recording the patter of working people.
Yes, ‘recording the patter of working people’ which, as is so often the case, brings up what it's all about in the UK: class. There simply isn’t the US use of slang, back to Helen Green and 'Hugh McHugh' among others, in a non-judgmental, non-condescending way in Brit stories of late 19/early, even mid-20C. There were exceptions, see W. Pett Ridge ‘Mord Emly’ (1898) and other 'Cockney novels' but they were a definite (short-lived) genre. Wodehouse, too but he was half American by 1910s.
I think the States only seems to be less about class in comparison to the Kingdom, for obvious reasons; our robber barons have lusted after your class hierarchy ever since we decided to go to war over paying taxes.
Of course, but as you know, I view everything through the monocular, if gloriously rewarding, lens of slang. The UK just isn’t producing that kind of author/text at that time. Brit-slang's walk-ons are still too self-conscious. (Let alone the occasional appearance of US imports). So many come with figurative or even literal quote-marks.
Mocking Hemingway is a sport in itself, and maybe it gets points somewhere, because people sure act like it does. I don't know if your countryman Gerald Kersh ever wrote sports columns, but he wrote Night and the City, among many other great tales. Fowler's End is excellent, but his short stories really shine. If he wrote about sports, it would be great work.
Hemingway: point taken.
Mags such as Bell's Life in London (mid-19C) and The Sporting Times (late 19C) are hugely slangy. And while I'm no rooter, I know there have always been good sports writers in UK, e.g. Neville Cardus (cricket), Brian Glanville (football), Hugh McIlvanny (boxing; and his brother William - acknowledged as ‘father’ of contemporary Scots crime fiction - and nephew Liam are worth checking for Scots police/noir) and doubtless many more (and more recent), but none have evolved that noir-ish style that Heinz etc managed. But nor did UK crime fiction either, just copied/adapted. AFAIK Kersh, whose works, esp. Fowler, Night and They Die with Their Boots Clean have offered near 600-citations, never touched sport (other than pro wrestling in Night...).